D&M 006: Emotional intelligence is more important to success than IQ and it?s learnable!


    1. In this session of the Dan and Matt Podcast we discuss the importance of emotional intelligence to success. Matthew highlights that it is a learned skill and more highly linked to success than IQ and Daniele show a quick and easy template to start you on your way to learning this amazing skill.

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1.Free Video’s From Dan and Matt?-?https://www.danandmatt.com/free


Matt: Hi, and welcome again to the Dan and Matt podcast – this our sixth episode, and today we’ll be discussing the ever important topic of emotional intelligence. Today, again, I have with me Daniele Lima.

Dan: Good morning, Matt, and good morning to all the listeners.

Matt: What we’re covering today, Daniele, is emotional intelligence. And there’s been some really interesting studies out there of late – well over a very long period of time, actually, of why emotional intelligence is so important, especially in the world of sales. But before we get into that, let’s first cover off on what is emotional intelligence?

Dan: Yeah, a perfect starting point. And I mean, Matt, E.I. can be described in a number of ways, but fundamentally it’s the ability to understand your own emotional state, and let’s accept now that as human beings we’ve always got emotions happening within us. So, to understand, right, this is what’s happening within me right now, and the ability to be able to control that whilst also being able at the same time to look at someone else that is in and around you and be able to be aware of what they’re going through and act accordingly.

Matt: Definitely, and for the listeners today, I’m going to specify that?E.I.?is the term that?industry uses for emotional intelligence, and you’ll find that now knowing that term, you’ll hear it spoken of quite a lot, because it is quite a popular thing and quite an important thing for most people to be aware of.

Dan: Absolutely, I couldn’t agree with that more.

Matt: So, Goleman broke emotional intelligence into four critical elements, and those elements were – self-awareness, self-regulation, empathy and social skills. And I think that – for what we’re trying to achieve right now Daniele it’s important that we at least understand the basis for what those are.

Dan: Yeah, so look, in that case, Matt, let me quickly go through them, and you articulated them perfectly there. If you consider that Goleman wanted to split it up into you and everyone else. So he spoke of self-awareness and self-control so literally, right now, this is what I’m feeling. You know, I’m frustrated in this situation because this person’s not listening to me. By understanding that I’m frustrated, I’m able to regulate my behavior by not allowing that frustration to come through, so that’s self-control. The other side of the coin is that empathy, which is really awareness of other people’s emotions and understanding why they might feel that way, and then the last bit you mentioned was social skills. So it’s one thing to empathise with someone that yeah I can see why this customer’s upset about something, but because of that, I’m going to act in a?way that’s appropriate based on how they feel. So, they’re the four essential building blocks to E.I.

Matt: Now, I can imagine that while, and we’re going to go into detail for why this helps people in the sales process, and why it’s so important in the sales process. But I can imagine that these concepts would be just as applicable in every other profession, not just sales.

Dan: I tell you, you just – for me, you’ve just made a definitive comment there, because E.I. isn’t just a work skill. It’s one of the true undiminishable life skills, not just work skills. It can help you in every aspect of your life, and every aspect of business life as well.

Matt: Well, we discussed just in the last episode the importance of self-regulation when addressing poorly performed sales people and in regards to self-regulation, this is a large principle of Goleman. So it’s very important that we’re always across, making sure that we self-regulate ourselves and as part of self-regulation, it’s very important to understand what our motivators are. If our motivators are purely external, i.e. financial, that sort of thing, it really is not going to allow us to regulate ourselves in the best way. We need to focus on what our internal motivators are, what our wire is – then more of a chunked up level, what were we actually trying to achieve? I mean, if it’s financial, why are we trying to achieve that? And that can help us really handle the regulation of what we do when we’re talking to others. The other important factor I think that we need to mention here is empathy is something that is so oftenly forgotten, especially in sales encounters.

Dan: Yeah, because people are so inwardly focused on what they’re trying to achieve through that call, that they forget one of the basic tenants of selling which is, it should all be focused around the customer’s needs.

Matt: Definitely, and that’s why in our process, the?danandmatt.com?process which you guys can access this?video, it’s at danandmatt.com/free, we actually discuss the sales process and pillar three is asking questions. And again, because of the lack of empathy, most people just go through and ask questions because they’re on the sheet that they have to ask questions for, or they ask questions purely to start selling their product. And empathy means that you ask questions with a purpose of asking further questions and to develop an understanding of what the customer wants and what the customer is trying to achieve. And this is why in sales, it is so important.

Dan: Yeah, totally agree and Matt, isn’t it reassuring to know that the things we’re talking about today because as you said earlier,?E.I.?now has been around for the best part of thirty?years, that we’ve got some wonderful data to support it?

Matt: Well, let’s go through that in a second, Daniele. The first thing just before we get there, I know a lot of people will say, emotional intelligence – look empathy it’s something I’m not great at. And it’s important to first recognise that those people can learn this skill. Goleman really spoke about with individualised coaching and working on your emotional intelligence it is a skill that you can not only develop, but master.

Dan: Yeah, and that’s really one of the key differentiators between emotional intelligence and what we would call normal intelligence – your IQ. That with your IQ, you are – we’re all born with a certain level of IQ. Now, some people are lucky. They’re born and they’re, you know, Leonardo Da Vinci or Einstein, you know, they’re blessed with phenomenal IQ and the reality is whatever you’re born with is what you’re born with. There’s no real way to move IQ. Where as with E.I.Q, emotional intelligence quotient, the great news is that you can move it with training. And we’ve shown, the studies have shown that even though your?E.I.?tapers off naturally in your late teens, if you do the study in?E.I.?as you’ve suggested,?it?continues to grow throughout your entire adult life, and I think that is great news for people to know.

Matt: So, the fact that people don’t have large amounts of empathy and perhaps are not great in social paradigms, and perhaps can’t regulate themselves, it can be said that it’s a choice. They’ve chosen not to and they can make a choice to actually work on these skills. And one of the common concepts that I like to put across at this stage, is that everything in life is a choice. People can choose to be the effect or at the cause of any problem, and if you’re at cause, it’s something you can work on. There are courses that you can do to work on social empathy. There are courses you can do to work on your entire?E.I.?framework, and we’re going to cover off on the specifics of the framework shortly. There are also many, many people that can work with you directly, hands on, and help you develop your emotional intelligence. However, if you choose to be in effect of this and say, “Well I’m just not an empathetic person,” or “I’m just not great, I’m an introvert, I’m not great in social encounters or – I just sometimes, I explode.” That’s putting you back to just an effect. There’s nothing you can do to fix the problem or nothing you choose to do to fix the problem, and I’d really like you all to step over into cause so we can start working on exploring and building our abilities in emotional intelligence.

Dan: Yeah, and Matt, you know what’s funny, as you just said that. I just had a like a throwback to a manager that I used to work with twenty years ago. And this lady, I remember she was a very difficult person to work with, and a very famous quote from her was where she basically erupted at someone. And she was a very senior manager, and made a comment along the lines of “Oh look, I’m just not a people person,” to justify that behavior. And I totally agree that these behaviors will limit you in every aspect of your life unless you make a conscious decision to get better at them.

Matt: And look, you really need to, because these are career destroying mistakes. If you explode for no reason, it’s a career destroyer. If you’re in an environment where all the important people in your organisation are there, they just discount you from any other further promotions. They can also discount you from large sales if a customer is like, “No matter what I say, he doesn’t seem to care about what I want or what I’m trying to achieve, let’s just go with somebody that actually does care.” And on that note, and before we get into frameworks of what we can do to start understanding this concept better, let’s talk about the concepts of – I believe there were some really strong studies, one of them was Pepsi in regards to the importance of emotional intelligence in the sales industry.


Dan: Yeah, look it’s, there were two actually Matt, two, and let me qualify this, there are two hundred, but two that really stood out for me, and I’d love to take you through both of them very quickly. One was by Daniel Goleman himself, and he studied the proprietary data for well over five hundred well known corporations. And he looked at three key areas, Matt. He looked at cognitive ability, which is IQ, which we call intelligence. He looked at technical skill, so the skills required to do a job, and he looked at emotional intelligence. And what he found that was across all positions in all companies – so this is your sales positions, it’s your marketing positions, it’s every position in every company. He found that E.I. was twice as important as IQ and technical skill combined. Now, I’m going to say that again, because it’s that important.?E.I.?was twice as important as IQ and technical skill?combined.

Matt: So to make that point clear then, Dan, what you’re saying is, if you’re one of those people that says look, “I’m just not as smart as everybody else, so I tend to find that I lose myself in conversations, or people tend to lose me in conversations. And if I’m in an environment where I have to sell and there are other salespeople also presenting, I tend to lose out because of that.” What you’re saying is that we can jump right over that problem by focusing on emotional intelligence, something that they can work on, rather than worry about being the smartest person in the room.

Dan: Yes, and that’s in their immediate role, but as they move forward into more senior roles, the study also found that 85% of the difference between the top positions and the lesser positions was all related to?E.I.?So, even as you go forward, beyond that current sales?role, the difference even at the top levels of management are purely?E.I.?related.

Matt: Well, that makes perfect sense because, again, we discussed if someone is to have an emotional outbreak, they’re obviously not into self-regulation at all, and they’re obviously not self-aware of what’s happening in their own personal self, so that will definitely prevent them from being promoted. But secondly, if they’re not great in social encounters, that’s where a lot of the promotional decisions are made on the Friday night when they’re going to the bar, perhaps, and talking to their managers, or at the Christmas party. If they’re not socializing, people don’t start to recognize who they are and what importance they can be in their organisation. And then thirdly, if they’re not empathetic to what their bosses are telling them, they can’t turn that into presenting themselves in a way that can help those people, or those bosses, fix that problem if they were involved in a higher position.

Dan: Exactly.

Matt: So obviously the self-promotion of all of that is lost if their?E.I.?skills are not high. And?lastly, if they’re not focused on – if you’re in a management position and you’re not focusing on improving everybody below you and around you, i.e. working with empathy and social skills, you’re just not going to get ahead.


Dan: Yeah, and Matt, that is the perfect segue – what you’ve just said, for the second study which really highlights what you just said there, which was the Pepsi Co study you alluded to earlier. And what happened there was that Pepsi themselves undertook a study which was conducted globally, so this was all their corporations and departments around the world. And it looked at the?E.I.?competencies of their most senior people, and look at what?they found – that if a manager had six or more?E.I.?competencies, they would typically be?in a division that would out perform the budget by up to 20%. Whereas if that senior person had four or less?E.I. competencies, they would typically come in at around 20% under?budget. And again, these differences happened, despite the fact that these managers had comparable levels of IQ and technical skill. So, yet again, it confirmed that at any age, in any role the greatest predictor of success and the difference you’re going to make is through EI.

Matt: Okay, mate, we need to learn emotional intelligence. So let’s go through the table that will break down emotional intelligence and make it applicable and apply-able by everybody that’s now listening.

Dan: Yeah, absolutely, so again, and we’re going to make this table available, Matt, I think we’ve said that.

Matt: Yeah, this will be on the website. (see below)

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Reference:? Daniel Goleman Emotional Intelligence

Dan: Fantastic. So, let’s look at it from the point of view firstly of self. So, from the point of view of self, which is us, we’ve got self-awareness. So how are we feeling going into that call? What are our emotions like? Are we a little bit nervous? Are we a little bit rushed? We’re feeling a bit edgy because we feel like we don’t have much time to get to the next thing, you know, regardless. Where are we at mentally? How confident are we with the materials we’ve had to learn? Self-regulation – understanding how we’re feeling we’re able to then cope and utilize those methods to relax ourselves. Deep breathing. Maybe have a drink, maybe just do some muscular exercises if we’re feeling a little bit edgy.

Matt: I might just interject there and say when we mean have a drink, that could mean just a glass of water because the simple act of taking a break to go to the water fountain and get some water can be what you need to do to disengage and self-regulate.

Dan: Absolutely. The scotch and coke can wait until after the meeting, but certainly. Of course, then from the other side of that coin which is the awareness of others here. And you’ve said it many time today, Matt, that empathy, that awareness of how other people are feeling as we are going through our sales call. And here I want to introduce what I call four magic questions. ?And here, I want to pretend that I’ve just said something to you. I’m selling to you, Matt, and I’ve said – I’ve made a statement about this is the product I’m selling and it does such and so. Now, the four magic questions are – what did I just say? Number one. Number two, how did the customer react to what I said? Number three, is that what I wanted? Is that what I would have predicted? And number four, how am I going to change that?

So these four questions, if we keep them in the front of our minds as we go through the actual sales call, at each point we can assess how people are reacting to what we’re doing. And naturally, social skills compels us to when we see someone isn’t comfortable with something we’re saying, we will qualify it. Our powers of observation can allow us to say “Bill, I can see that perhaps you’re not totally comfortable with what I’ve just said there. Let me ask you, specifically what is it that is concerning you there?” So that’s taking an observation that the person wasn’t comfortable, and then allowing them to qualify what their level of discomfort is for that statement. So can you see how instead of just going through it without any interaction or engagement, we can utilise that level of awareness in how other people are feeling to express our concern about it and give them the opportunity to then share with us what they’re not particularly happy with.

Matt: Definitely, and I think it really gives people a solid framework to start to create relationships and manage themselves in a way that can both promote themselves in a career and in their personal lives. And, I’m going to go one step further, just to help people really visualise this understand, I guess where it starts and where it finishes. Because I like to think of things as a matter of stages. And I like to say stage one is really self-awareness. Being understanding of your own emotional self and your self-confidence and being completely across who you are as a person, because you can’t do any of the others unless you’re comfortable in who you are. I then like to say that we step down or to the right, depending upon whether we’re focusing on our self or whether we’re focusing on ourselves in a social encounter. But, let’s focus on going straight down to the second column which is self-management or self-regulation, if you like. And that’s still really a self-methodology, which is really self-controlling in environments, the ability to be flexible, the ability to be intuitive and understand I guess where our emotional make up is. And really starting to regulate ourselves in those environments, so now we’re completely strong in self.

Moving across, now going back to self-awareness and moving to the right, focusing on self-awareness – sorry, social awareness, really starts to develop. And this is the first time we’re really starting to really move towards the social sphere, actually dealing with other people and understanding other people. So what we’re really looking at here is your empathy and your organizational awareness and really understanding other people and focusing on other people. These two, self-management or self-regulation and self-awareness, I like to call stage two. So we start in stage one, which is self-awareness and then we branch out into stage two which is self-management and social awareness.

These concepts allow us to then break into step three, which is relationship management or your social skills. Because without stage one and stage two, you just are not comfortable in a social sphere dealing with lots of people. And the social relationship or the social – the relationship management or stage three is where you start to become a catalyst for change, or you really start to influence others in their decision making processes and who’s going to get that next management position. Maybe you, or maybe somebody that you’re lobbying for? Or really starting to develop others and create change within them, perhaps your staff members that you’re trying to get to move up? And work on teamwork and collaboration, because you can become the catalyst for moving that forward. And again, you need stage one and stage two to have the empathy, the self-awareness and the self-management to become that catalyst for change, to become that person that brings on collaborative teamwork, the person that builds bonds between other people and really influences others for what you want to achieve for your life and for what you want to achieve for the organisation.

Dan: Absolutely.

Matt: So, I really hope that helps people understand, not only the importance of emotional intelligence, but secondly the fact that every single one of those steps needs to be taken to get yourself to the ability to be able to influence others and become a catalyst for change. You can’t just say “Oh, I’m going to focus primarily on relationship management.” Each one is a building block or a foundation for the total self or your total emotional intelligence.

Dan: And as I said, Matt, I know of no other skill that is so universally applicable to every area of your life. In terms of your personal life, your life as a student, your life in professional situations. It’s something that the better you get at it, the more it helps you in every area of every aspect of your life.

Matt: Look, I definitely agree, and I guess for the last thing that I want to talk about, Daniele, just for the sake of making this clear and comfortable for people – is that I know that when you look at formats, and as I said, this template will be available on the danandmatt.com website, if you go to the podcast section and look under episode six. But when people look at using a framework to develop themselves, I know that there’s always a concern about being systemised or being procedurised, or coming across fake to other people because you’ve actually worked on developing these things. And I guess Dan, I’d just like to get your feedback on what you feel that would really help people overcome this perhaps hurdle?

Dan: Oh look, there’s a difference between being phony, which no one wants to do, and being systemised, which is having an efficient process to work through something that needs to be done. And I think it’s as much as anything, Matt, it’s just a mental adjustment. That there are certain steps that you have to take – the way a great chef goes through certain steps to make a fantastic meal. As professional business people, we take certain steps that we systemise to get a specific outcome. So that there’s nothing artificial about it, it’s purely an efficient and effective way to achieve goals.

Matt: I’m with you and I can’t help but think that if I was going to be dealing with social situations and people all the time and know that that is so critical and so important to my life, that I wouldn’t want to do it without a plan, and without a process for getting better at it.

Dan: I agree.

Matt: So, with that said, I really appreciate everybody spending their time with us again for this session, and again you can find us at facebook.com/danandmatt or on Twitter, our handle is Dan and Matthew. Also, find us on our website at danandmatt.com, and don’t forget to type in /free to get access to some amazing free video content that will help you understand segmentation in your business and understand how to systemise your sales process with seven easy steps. So with that, thank you very much again for your time and we’ll see you next time.

Dan: Bye everyone.

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